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The Lawfare Podcast

Rational Security: The "New Phone, Houthis?" Edition

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 27 March 2025

⏱️ 97 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes and Roger Parloff to talk through the week of the most Rational Security-esque of national security news stories ever, including: 

  • “Oopsec.” In a strong contender for the most ridiculous national security story of the year, senior Trump administration officials appear to have planned a series of airstrikes in Yemen that took place earlier this month through the social messaging app Signal—and they appear to have included The Atlantic’s Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg by mistake, giving him access to detailed war plans and internal policy discussions that he has now (mostly) made public. How irresponsible were the Trump administration’s actions? And what will the consequences be of this mistake?
  • “Secrets, Lies, and Bureaucratic Red Tape.” The Trump administration employed the Alien Enemies Act to remove alleged members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua to a notorious prison in El Salvador last week, just before or perhaps just after (a point of ongoing inquiry) an order from a federal district court judge directed them not to. And now the Trump administration is invoking the state secrets privilege to avoid having to disclose more details regarding its policy choices. How firm is the legal ground that the Trump administration is operating on? And how will the courts handle it? 
  • “How Do You Think We Keep These Shoes So White?” Leading white shoe law firm Paul, Weiss kissed the feet—or perhaps licked the boots—of President Trump this week in an effort to escape the highly discriminatory sanctions Trump recently imposed on them for their past ties with a lawyer who worked with the prosecution in his New York criminal case. What could their acquiescence mean for big law? And the legal industry more generally?

In object lessons, Roger is unwinding from court documents in English by diving into Walter Isaacson’s “Elon Musk” in French—because nothing says relaxation like a billionaire’s biography en français. Scott revisited his college years, reminded of Bob Dylan’s live 1966 performance of “The Royal Albert Hall Concert” after watching A Complete Unknown (pro tip: never leave a pile of axes at a folk festival). And Ben pleads with “the algorithm” to stop assuming he needs weapons disguised as mobility devices.

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising.

0:04.4

To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at

0:11.5

patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.

0:18.2

Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings. Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,

0:26.9

and The Aftermath.

0:31.8

Every day, incredible women are working to keep the public safe from terrorism.

0:36.2

None of my family or friends would believe me

0:38.5

if I said, this is what I do for a job. I'm Amy and I work in communications at counterterrorism

0:43.7

policing. And to celebrate international women's day, I wanted to share the stories of some of those

0:48.8

women. You don't know what people are capable of. You read about things or you hear about things

0:53.8

and you think,

0:57.3

oh, I'll never experience that or I'll never have to deal with that and then you do.

1:01.7

Listen to inside counterterrorism policing, wherever you get your podcast from.

1:03.9

Ouch!

1:07.0

Employing staff in-house has never been more expensive.

1:09.1

But what if you could take something out of the mix?

1:10.5

Like your call handling? This is where

1:12.4

Moneypenny comes in. We can answer your calls, book appointments, qualify leads and more.

1:18.5

The best bit? It's all rolled into a single on-demand subscription-based service that works for you

1:23.9

and your business. Go to Moneypenny.com.uk today.

1:35.1

Ben, I understand from Slack, I've been out of town for most of the last week, but I saw

1:40.0

on Slack there's a new member of your family household coming in.

...

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