Rewind: The spy who wanted to bring down apartheid Part 1

Lives Less Ordinary

BBC

Society & Culture, Documentary, Personal Journals

4.6 • 814 Ratings

🗓️ 10 March 2025

⏱️ 41 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sue Dobson was a white South African who risked her life as an ANC secret agent

Sue was a student when she was first recruited as a spy for the African National Congress liberation movement in the 1980s, and she knew that if she was caught she'd face prison, torture or death. Sue's mission would require her to infiltrate the pro-apartheid media establishment, but first she needed to learn spycraft and weapons handling. Her training would take place in Soviet Russia.

Presenter: India Rakusen Producer: Harry Graham Editor: Deiniol Buxton Sound design: Joel Cox

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, you're about to listen to a BBC podcast, so I'd like to tell you where you'll find more just like it.
0:05.6	I'm Izzy Lee Poulton, an assistant commissioner for BBC Sounds, which means I'm involved in the whole podcast making process.
0:12.2	Whether that's developing fresh formats or facilitating eye-catching artwork, I helped project manage all the details that make our podcast stand out.
0:19.7	At the BBC, we've got access to storytellers
0:21.9	and experts across a huge range of subjects. It could be psychologists, comedians, celebrities or
0:27.7	journalists, no podcast or day, looks the same here. So no matter what you like, check out BBC
0:33.3	Sounds. There's probably another podcast on there that you're absolutely love.
0:39.3	I was trained in a variety of firearms. I was taught how to use the weapon of choice
0:46.8	by liberation movements throughout the world, which is the AK-47. And I was also instructed in things like hand grenades.
0:58.9	When Sue Dobson first fired an AK-47,
1:03.4	it was in a snowy field in Soviet Russia, 1986.
1:08.2	How did it feel to you handling weapons?
1:10.7	It's the strangest feeling.
1:12.6	They have a peculiar beauty, if that's understandable.
1:16.6	You can admire the intricacies of them.
1:19.6	They have a peculiar sort of beauty and power.
1:25.6	I suppose that's a mixture of fear and all, really, when you look at them.
1:32.3	And also a sense of horror.
1:36.5	These are weapons of destruction.
1:38.6	These are things that take people's lives, the huge responsibility of handling a weapon.
1:44.7	These are huge questions that you have to think about.
1:52.7	The Moscow firing range was a long way from home.
	...

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