Hey, folks, welcome to the Dark Horse podcast. This is the inside rail, and I have the distinct

honor and pleasure of sitting with Charles Eisenstein, somebody that I have been reading for a

very long time, long before I was a public figure in any way. Before we get to anything else,

let me just say that Charles has been called a public philosopher. I've

certainly long been reading his writings. I would say he comes from a previous tradition

on the left when environmentalism meant something well beyond concern over climate, when the Democratic Party wasn't so enthusiastic about

war, et cetera. So Charles, welcome to Dark Horse.

Hey, Brett. Happy to be here.

What brings us together, well, let me just say, as I said, I've been reading your work for quite some time.

You and I ran into each other in person a few years back at a conference in Austin,

and you reached out this, well, in the last few days, as a result of having seen a piece that I had put out talking about the

possibility that RFK is being blackmailed and that accounts for his strange focus on

anti-Semitism from his new position at the head of HHS. Now, you were a, you were his head speech writer during

the period when he was campaigning for president. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. So,

you know Bobby well. You and I both consider Bobby a good friend, and this is a delicate topic, the question of whether or not someone is coercing

him into focusing on anti-Semitism and taking up other positions at a moment when you and I

as fellow COVID dissidents would hope that he would be addressing issues of health that he promised

to address during the campaign. Is that a fair assessment?

Well, you know, I think that he is addressing issues of health. And partly, you know, on one level, this is all a huge distraction and just another way for people

to trip him up, you know, and divert his attention onto other matters.

But there's something deeper here as well.

That's always bothered me. You know. It's no secret that I was

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