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Mormon Stories Podcast

TAKING DOWN the Two by Twos Cult (2x2, The Truth) - Kari & Kyle Hanks Pt. 2 | Ep. 2009

Mormon Stories Podcast

Dr. John Dehlin

Religion & Spirituality

4.65.2K Ratings

🗓️ 14 April 2025

⏱️ 178 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In Part 2 of our story, Kyle opens up about his life growing up in the Two by Twos faith — from a childhood shaped by pressure to "uphold the family name," to navigating chronic illness and suppressing his passions for music and basketball in order to prioritize church. We talk about the expectations around professing young, the control over dating, marriage, and even parenting — including the harmful encouragement of corporal punishment.

As cracks began to form during the COVID-19 pandemic, Kyle and Kari found themselves questioning everything they believed. From hidden doubts, religious trauma, and Kari’s journey of discovering her bisexuality, to the couple’s darkest moments and eventual transformation, this episode dives deep into how they began rebuilding their lives outside the 2x2 world.

We also discuss the emerging abuse allegations within the Two by Twos church, the beginnings of their Ex-Two by Two support group, and the broader fight for transparency and accountability in a faith that claims to have no organization at all. This is a raw, emotional, and revealing chapter of their deconstruction journey.


Show Notes

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Transcript

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0:00.0

How do you hold accountable a group of people so good at not existing?

0:05.0

If ever there was a church set up to explicitly avoid the pitfall of so many religions,

0:10.0

which is their downfall due to sex, money, and power, it was your church.

0:15.0

It didn't even have a name. It didn't even have a legal organizational structure.

0:20.0

It totally downplayed and then erased its founder.

0:24.3

So like, how could anything go wrong?

0:27.1

It was hard to imagine existing outside of two-by-toism.

0:32.6

Like, we couldn't picture what life outside would even look like.

0:36.2

It was too hard to imagine.

0:38.3

It was easier to imagine us just disappearing from life altogether. If it's so hard to leave this religion that death

0:45.5

seems like a reasonable way out, it's a cult. I thought the fact that I'm even here feeling

0:52.7

this right now is because I'm giving too much weight to something that's not giving me anything back.

0:56.5

When I really, really need something to lean on, there's nothing there. And that's not my fault. I can't say I was a doubting it. It's not what you do. It's who you are on a, on a molecular

1:11.7

level. It's your identity. It's your marriage. It's your family relationships. It's your community. It's

1:16.7

your worldview. Then, very well-known, highly respected overseer was found dead in a hotel room.

1:24.1

He was an abuser who abused women and children. It felt like the last good guy that we knew

1:30.5

was going down. Like it felt like if he has allegations, who doesn't? Like the whole thing is

1:37.4

corrupt, right? That's how it felt to us at the time. We started having people flooding to us

1:41.7

for information. Our group was just absolutely exploding because people were hearing about it because we were sharing public information.

1:49.5

And then word of mouth and everyone was like, where is the information coming from?

1:53.3

It's coming from the support group.

1:54.5

So we had a lot of ex-members who had been out for a long time just hearing about the group.

...

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