I remember there was an article in 2012 in the New York Times, which was written by Mahmoud Abbas,

and it was Abbas's declaration of lawfare. He called for the internationalization of the

conflict as a legal, not just a political matter. Now, lawfare is an abuse of legal systems, legal processes,

international legal institutions in particular when it comes to Israel. And it is a misuse of those

processes to advance a particular political agenda. So it's not just at the ICC, but I have seen

the developments across other international legal bodies,

across the international legal academy, essentially accusing the victims of the very crimes

that have been perpetrated against them. I mean, all of this is utterly extraordinary,

but outside of these exchanges that we're having, it is becoming the

received wisdom.

It's 5.30 p.m. on Saturday, November 23rd here in New York City. It's 10.30 p.m. on Saturday, November 23rd, here in New York City. It's 10.30 p.m. on November 23rd in London,

where our guest joins us today. It is 12.30 a.m. in Israel on Sunday, November 24th, as Israelis prepare for the week ahead.

Two days ago, judges at the International Criminal Court, the ICC, issued arrest warrants for Israel's

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel's former defense minister, Yoav Galant,

on the grounds of attempting to orchestrate starvation as a method of warfare and crimes against

humanity of murder and persecution in the ICC's terms.

A warrant was also issued for Hamas leader Mohamed Def, who was killed in an airstrike in Gaza in July.

President Biden swiftly called the war crimes arrest warrant, quote, outrageous and said that the United States government rejected the ICC decision.

And Republican leaders of Congress, who will be taking over the majority in a matter of weeks, came out with very harsh statements directed at the ICC,

implying that there will be repercussions

for the ICC as an institution.

On the other hand, several European countries have said that they respect the decisions of the

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