The Path to Awakening: Meditation, Zen, and Becoming a Person of No Rank (#73)
The Kevin Rose Show
Kevin Rose
4.9 • 2.1K Ratings
🗓️ 17 November 2024
⏱️ 91 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
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Exploring the intersection of ancient wisdom and modern life, Kevin Rose sits down with celebrated Zen teacher Henry Shukman to explore the depths of meditation practice, the nature of awakening, and the universal human capacity for transformation. From practical meditation advice to fascinating Zen stories and the relationship between different spiritual traditions, this wide-ranging discussion offers both practical guidance for beginners and deep insights for experienced practitioners.
Show Notes
Notable Quotes
* "Between stimulus and response, there is a gap. Everything is in that gap." - Viktor Frankl (referenced)
* "The way that can be spoken of is not the true way" - Tao Te Ching
* "No coffee, no Pat" - Pat Hawk Roshi
* "We're all made of the universe" - Henry Shukman
The Way App and Meditation Practice
* Discussion of The Way meditation app's approach
* The challenge of user retention in meditation apps
* Focus on building durable meditation habits
* A different approach from other meditation apps - emphasis on long-term practice
Building a Meditation Practice
* Optimal meditation duration?
* What is the best time to meditate?
* Importance of daily consistency over longer sporadic sessions
* Discussion of gradual progression from shorter to longer sits
Understanding Different Types of Meditation Benefits
* Mindfulness and basic awareness
* Recognition of thoughts and feelings
* Development of self-compassion
* The space between stimulus and response
Awakening Experiences
* Nature of awakening experiences
* Discussion of "person of no rank" concept
* Relationship between time, space, and consciousness
* Different cultural interpretations of similar experiences
Religious Traditions and Meditation
* Comparison of different meditation traditions
* Discussion of reincarnation beliefs
* The Cloud of Unknowing and Christian Mysticism
* Universal aspects of spiritual experiences across traditions
Practical Guidance
* Role of caffeine in meditation practice
* Building a sustainable practice
* Integration with daily life
* Balancing spiritual pursuit with everyday responsibilities
Key Stories and Examples
* Bodhidharma and the origin of tea
* Story of the plum blossom awakening
* Mount Athos experiences
* Various Zen teaching stories
Resources Mentioned
* The Way App - Henry’s meditation app (iOS/Android)
* "Original Love" - Henry’s new book
* "The Cloud of Unknowing" - Anonymous
* "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Ah, Henry. |
| 0:06.9 | Good to see you. |
| 0:08.0 | Kevin, it's great to be back. |
| 0:09.7 | Really nice to be in the room with you again. |
| 0:11.6 | Yeah, it's changed a bit. |
| 0:13.1 | Last time we were here, we had like two chairs floating because I was just kind of building |
| 0:18.2 | out the studio, but now, now it's pretty much complete. |
| 0:23.6 | So lots happened since we last chatted. |
| 0:24.6 | You launched a new book. |
| 0:28.1 | The Way app has been building momentum, which has been great. |
| 0:30.5 | So I'd love to talk about all those things. And then also this morning, I was up early because of my jet lag, I did some user submitted |
| 0:36.5 | questions as well. |
| 0:39.1 | So I went on Instagram and we've got a few questions there. So are you game for, for all of that? Let's, let's see where we go. |
| 0:43.5 | Okay. Just dive in and whatever happens happens. Yeah. Sounds great. Um, so the Way app, uh, |
| 0:50.0 | one of the things that, you know, we know to be true in the app industry when you look across the board on Meditations app. |
| 0:57.2 | And I would say meditation in general is that there is a lot of user churn. |
| 1:02.3 | Like people have these intentions. |
| 1:03.7 | They're like, okay, meditation sounds great, you know. |
| 1:06.8 | They want to sit down and really figure out if this is for them. |
| 1:11.9 | Oftentimes, you know, and a lot of people listen to this, I'm sure will say, hey, I tried it. |
| 1:16.0 | It just didn't work for me. |
| 1:18.5 | It's funny, my good colleague of mine, I was just in Hawaii at this conference, and he was there too. |
... |
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