From Wundry I'm Alice Levine.

And I'm Matt Ford and this is British scandal. So Alice, how do you feel after a couple of years in Peru?

Nothing really brings you back to reality like some time in a Peruvian prison with a woman who fed her husband his lover.

When you gotta eat, you gotta eat.

But how do you feel about the story of the Peru too now that they're back in their motherlands. This is such a tricky story because from the get-go we immediately felt like

Michaela and Melissa had made some really horrible choices some stupid mistakes to be frank but it was also clear that they'd been

exploited and that they'd been groomed and in this scandal there is no clear

single villain you know we were introduced to

Mateo, we were introduced to Davy who are clearly bad guys, but they're also

just cogs in a wheel. It also felt really unjust that these two young women had to make a decision about how to plead with no real understanding of what they were facing or the ramifications of that decision and that they were at the hands not only of the press but also of the state prosecutor in Peru who had a PR plan and a campaign of his own to paint Peru with something other than a drugs haven and it does feel

like these two young people are trapped in the middle of this storm.

It does I mean before this I'd seen narcos and as a result I thought I was a bit of an

expert on the international cocaine trade. It turns out it's a lot more complicated.

Yes and it also turns out that these are two young women who have walked a well trodden path. There are lots of people we know now the Peruvian. It also

fallen into the young women who have walked a well trodden path.

There are lots of people we know now the Peruvian prisons are full of them, who've also fallen into the trap of muling or getting

involved in some capacity in the drugs trade.

And so the example that's made of them is really disproportionate.

And it's still going on today.

So we've decided to speak to someone that's done a lot of research into drugs

mules. She studied the role that women play in the drugs market, testified in defense of

drugs mules, and is author of the book, What We Talk About When We Talk About crime. We're speaking to Dr.

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