There was always this possibility that this was a trick of some kind, but I think more than anything else, it was an unwillingness to accept that this family had been killed because we were intimately familiar with their faces.

We felt that we knew them and, you know, we knew those two kids.

And basically the decision was that we would not accept that they were dead until we were forced

to accept that it was true. And that moment arrived this morning.

It's 9 o'clock a.m. on Thursday, February 20th here in New York City.

It is 4 o'clock p.m. on Thursday, February 20th in Israel, as the nation grieves following the return of the bodies of Oded Lifshitz,

Sheri Bibas, and her two sons, Ariel Bibas, and Kfir Bibbas.

O'Ded Bifshitz was 83 years old when he was taken hostage on October 7, 2023.

Sheri Bibbas was 32 at the time.

Her son, Ariel Bibas, was four years old, and her younger son, Kfir Bibbas, was nine months old when taken hostage.

Their father, Jardin Bibas, also taken hostage on October 7 7th returned to Israel earlier this month.

For Israelis and for many people around the world, the story of the Bibas family has become a symbol

of the brutality and barbarism of Hamas.

And that face of nine-month-old Kfir Bibbas served as a harsh reminder of the helplessness that the victims of

October 7th were faced with that day and beyond. With us to discuss the events of this awful day

and what it means for Israeli society, call me back regular Matty Friedman joins us from Jerusalem.

Mati, welcome back to the podcast, albeit under some pretty

dreadful circumstances. Thanks for having me on. Mati, before you describe the tragic events of the day,

which you have been experiencing your seven hours ahead of us, so most of your day has happened,

this horrendous day, can you just tell us a little bit about

who Odette Lifshitz and Shiri Bibas and her two sons, Ariel and Kfir, were? Who were these people?

So we're very quick to ascribe political meaning to the hostages and to their story and to kind of

...