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The Ezra Klein Show

This Conversation About the 'Reading Mind' Is a Gift

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 22 November 2022

⏱️ 70 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Every day, we consume a mind-boggling amount of information. We scan online news articles, sift through text messages and emails, scroll through our social-media feeds — and that’s usually before we even get out of bed in the morning. In 2009, a team of researchers found that the average American consumed about 34 gigabytes of information a day. Undoubtedly, that number would be even higher today. But what are we actually getting from this huge influx of information? How is it affecting our memories, our attention spans, our ability to think? What might this mean for today’s children, and future generations? And what does it take to read — and think — deeply in a world so flooded with constant input? Maryanne Wolf is a researcher and scholar at U.C.L.A.’s School of Education and Information Studies. Her books “Proust and the Squid: The Story and Science of the Reading Brain” and “Reader, Come Home: The Reading Brain in a Digital World” explore the relationship between the process of reading and the neuroscience of the brain. And, in Wolfe’s view, our era of information overload represents a historical inflection point where our ability to read — truly, deeply read, not just scan or scroll — hangs in the balance. We discuss why reading is a fundamentally “unnatural” act, how scanning and scrolling differ from “deep reading,” why it’s not accurate to say that “reading” is just one thing, how our brains process information differently when we’re reading on a Kindle or a laptop as opposed to a physical book, how exposure to such an abundance of information is rewiring our brains and reshaping our society, how to rediscover the lost art of reading books deeply, what Wolf recommends to those of us who struggle against digital distractions, what parents can do to to protect their children’s attention, how Wolf’s theory of a “biliterate brain” may save our species’ ability to deeply process language and information and more. Mentioned: The Glass Bead Game (Magister Ludi) by Hermann Hesse How We Read Now by Naomi S. Baron The Shallows by Nicholas Carr Yiruma Book Recommendations: The Gilead Novels by Marilynne Robinson World and Town by Gish Jen Standing by Words by Wendell Berry Love’s Mind by John S. Dunne Middlemarch by George Eliot Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. (And if you’re reaching out to recommend a guest, please write “Guest Suggestion” in the subject line.) You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Ezra Klein. This is the Ezra Conchell.

0:24.1

Here is the thesis of this conversation put simply. How we read is as deserving of attention

0:31.9

as what we read. Maybe for more so. And how we read it is changed dramatically in just

0:39.4

a few short years. And that means our minds, the way we think and interpret and reflect

0:44.8

on the world, they've changed too. And at stunning speed, literacy is an experiment humankind

0:50.5

to ran on itself. That we ran on ourselves pretty recently actually. And it has had remarkable

0:56.1

wondrous results. It has changed us and it has changed our societies. In recent decades,

1:02.2

the shift to thinking and reading amidst a cacophony of digital information and dialogue and

1:08.8

text, that is another experiment we're running on ourselves. And it is also a seismic

1:13.6

one and it is ongoing and it is early. And we don't know how it will turn out. We don't.

1:21.6

But people are trying to figure that out. Mary and Wolf is a professor at UCLA School

1:25.4

of Education and Information Studies. And she's one of the world's leading experts on how

1:29.9

reading works in and even more importantly, how it works on the brain, how it changes

1:35.1

the brain. She's the author of Proust and the Squid, the story and science of a reading

1:39.4

brain. And if reader come home, the reading brain in a digital world, among other books.

1:46.0

And don't worry, she's not someone who thinks we can or should turn back the clock to try

1:51.3

to return to some kind of pre-digital reading utopia. That's not possible. Nor was it a utopia.

1:57.9

And I'm not that person either. My whole career, my whole life is built on digital text. Her

2:03.4

idea is something different. That we need to understand what different kinds of reading

2:09.6

do to our minds. And then we need to develop in ourselves and our children what she calls

2:14.8

a bilateral brain. And as you'll hear here, she's just a lovely person to listen to and

2:21.8

to think alongside. As always, if you have guest suggestions, feedback, things you think

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