Hello trueies listeners.

Welcome back to our new assignment, True Spies, debrief.

Here on the De Brief, we catch up with some of our favorite guests from the True Spies Archive

for a deeper look at the themes, events, and insights that fascinate them.

If you like what you hear, subscribe to Spiscape Plus for more exclusive debriefs at plus.

Spiscape.com.

Valerie Plain was famously outed

in 2003. If you missed it, you can hear the full story

straight from Valerie herself in episode 3 of True Spies Fair Game. But even though her cover was

blown, she's managed to spend many years pursuing her passion, nuclear non-proliferation.

True spies producer Morgan Childs caught up with Valerie earlier this summer

to hear about the state of the doomsday clock,

what might happen after the expiry of the New Start Treaty,

and what steps the next US administration could take

to ease nuclear tensions with the rest of the world?

Valerie, I'm really happy you're here. Thank you for joining us. The career that you have had over the past 20 years is absolutely not the career that you had in mind for

yourself. But nonetheless you have

still managed to pursue work that is very important to you I wonder if you could

tell me why you've made nuclear nonproliferation the centerpiece of your life and of your work.

Thank you for having me.

It is a pleasure, as always.

My area of expertise at the CIA was nuclear counterproliferation.

...