All right, with me now is the president of the Heritage Foundation, who is an interesting man in his own right doing what he does at Heritage.

But he also has specific experience in a situation, almost exactly like the one we're talking about today, which is, of course, President Trump freezing funding, freezing federal funding for Harvard University because they refuse to comply with President Trump's signed

executive order on DEI and his executive order on combating anti-Semitism on college campuses.

Dr. Roberts, thanks for being on the show. It is a pleasure. You know, you are one of my favorite

people on the planet, a crowd favorite among the Roberts family, the Roberts household. So

thanks for having me on, Liz. Of course, this is one of the reasons why we bring them on to.

No, I just, I just. Okay. So you have a very interesting background because you're working now

as president of heritage, but you are an academic by trade, if you will, and you were the president

of Wyoming Catholic College during your

tenure, and I want you to tell me this story in your own words. I don't want to tee it up too much here.

You switched from accepting federally subsidized student loans to no longer accepting those

for reasons, very similar to what's happening at Harvard. Can you walk me through that

whole scenario? The parallels between what we were facing at Wyoming Catholic College and the

situation at Harvard, which I will say, bottom line up front, Harvard is bringing upon itself are really

striking. And so the relatively short story at Wyoming Catholic is that as the second president of the college,

I led the college up to the phase in its accreditation when we finally became eligible to participate in the federal student loan and grant program.

And up to that point, the board, the faculty, the first president, all great people had assumed that we would just do that.

But keep in mind, Liz,

that this was in 2013, 2014. We were in just the depths as conservatives of the Obama administration.

I was convinced in the 2016 election well before Donald Trump came down that escalator that Hillary

Clinton was going to be the nominee and would win. And she was

even going to be more outrageous than the Obama administration was on our College of Faith. Keep in mind

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