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What Next: TBD | Where DOGE Is Taking Us

Slate News

Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Politics

4.66K Ratings

🗓️ 4 April 2025

⏱️ 29 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, DOGE set its sights  and scythe on the Department of Health and Human Services, with a goal of cutting 10,000 federal workers, once again raising the question: what’s their endgame here? Guest: Makena Kelly, senior writer for WIRED Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Over the past week, thousands of federal employees at the Department of Health and Human Services

0:08.6

were waiting for the hammer to drop. They knew that some kind of announcement, likely a layoff,

0:14.4

was coming. Then, on Tuesday, it happened. People were waking up to emails in their inbox saying that they no longer have a job.

0:24.5

They're being placed on leave.

0:27.1

McKenna Kelly writes about politics for Wired.

0:30.4

And the other thing is that, you know, when you're at some of these offices, specifically

0:34.4

that are HHS offices in places like Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, people don't

0:39.2

necessarily live in those cities and they do a lot of commuting. And so people show up to these

0:43.4

buildings, they badge in and their badge doesn't let them in, right? And a lot of people ended up

0:48.7

finding out that way. So people were actually walking up to the building, like putting their pass out and nothing?

0:55.3

Yep, nothing.

0:56.7

McKenna also heard from workers who had their badge access mistakenly turned off or mistakenly left on.

1:03.2

It's all part of a plan to cut some 10,000 employees from jobs at HHS, the Centers for Disease Control, the National Institutes of Health,

1:12.5

and more through large-scale reductions in force, or RIFs.

1:18.2

But within HHS and its smaller agencies, no one seems to know how large the RIFs will be.

1:24.7

A lot of these workers at these agencies are still trying to crowdsource exactly what

1:31.1

every agency at HHS looks like because they haven't really heard anything from their managers or

1:35.7

leadership. And they're still awaiting, you know, marching orders for what happens going forward.

1:41.3

How quickly do you think Americans are going to feel some of these cuts?

1:45.0

That's the thing that hit me this week reporting on this. One of the things that one of my

1:49.1

sources pointed out to me on Tuesday in the hours after these emails went out was that,

1:54.3

especially at the CDC, a lot of these are like people who quietly make the world work,

...

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