Hey everybody, this is Aubrey Chavez from Faith Matters.

Tyler Johnson is intimately familiar with suffering.

He's an oncologist who has sat with countless people in some of the most difficult moments of their lives,

and in the final moments before their deaths.

He's been there as people have received life-changing news and as they've grappled with their deepest questions.

What is my life meant? What should I prioritize if my time is limited?

Have I given enough attention to what truly matters?

It's that perspective that Tyler brings to the project that we brought him on to talk about today,

a new book published by Desert Book called When Church is Hard.

In addition to his work as an oncologist, Tyler has been a bishop who has worked with many who

have found their experience at church, for any number of reasons, deeply hard.

And in a way that we feel like he is uniquely qualified to do, Tyler has approached both of

these situations with the type of response they both call for, listening, validation,

empathy, and humbly offered insight. In our conversation with him,

we explored how doubt and uncertainty, rather than being a flaw or something to fix, can be a

natural part of fate that leads to deeper growth and integrity. We also explored the parallels

between the existential questions his patients face and those that arise during faith crisis,

and how both might invite us to

reevaluate priorities in ways that we couldn't otherwise. And finally, we looked at what belonging

looks like on both sides when someone is sitting in pain and perplexity. For anyone who's feeling

like this part of their faith journey is just hard or who has a loved one who's feeling this way,

we really think that this conversation

...