Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, BTR.org. I'm Anne. I'm sure you remember what it was like when you were searching for help, maybe for your husband, hoping to find the right program or therapist. That's why I started podcasting. I supported my husband through seven years of pornography addiction recovery and not one therapist during that time told me I was experiencing emotional

and psychological abuse and sexual coercion. I didn't want any other woman on the planet to be in

the dark. If you're like the majority of my listeners, you're experiencing the type of abuse that's

invisible and difficult to wrap your head around. Your husband is using porn or having

affairs or lying to you, and you're getting the same bad advice about how to improve communication

or your relationship. If you need support from women who totally understand, check out our daily

group session schedule at BTR.org slash group. We'd love to see you in a session today. One simple, anonymous way to help spread the word

is to click, follow, or subscribe to the Betrayal Trauma Recovery podcast on your favorite

podcasting app. While you're there, every five-star rating helps make this podcast more visible

and will help save other women from getting the wrong kind of help, like a couple

program that will make this type of abuse worse. For those of you who follow or subscribe to this

podcast, thank you so much. Your support means so much to me. My mom's joining me today because

lately she's been on a soapbox, an awesome soapbox, that we should be talking more about how pornography isn't just

viewing videos or pictures, but it's actually virtual sex because it involves masturbation

and it involves the bonding chemicals that you release during sex. I have a section of this in my

book that will be coming out soon about how masturbation is always part of the equation.

So, Mom, can you explain why you think that instead of using the word pornography, we should just say virtual sex?

Well, the reason I thought it was important is because we often use the term pornography.

And I think a lot of the world, they don't

really think that it involves anything else other than just looking. But when they're looking at

those pictures, there are real women that had their picture taken. They're somebody's mom,

they're somebody's daughter, somebody's sister. They are real

...