At its best, I think grief needs to be held collectively.

It's too big of a force, I think, for any one person to hold in isolation and separation. And I think when we try to hold that grief, it gets

sloppy. We get sloppy. We get sloppy. Hello beloved listeners this is Aiger Murray Brown writer of stories and songs,

emergent strategist and pleasure activist,

living in the land of the Chichori,

Scurray, Tuscarora, Eno, and Lumbay Peoples.

And this is how to survive the end of the world our podcast about learning

from apocalypse with grace rigor and curiosity when I say our of course I'm including my co-host and sister Autumn Megan Brown

who's currently on sabbatical making very weird art I'm very proud of her in her

absence and in honor of my book Fables and Spells which came out last year,

I'm going full witch this season and having conversations with my favorite witches and teachers and I'll also be reading you little bits and

pieces from the book. Now what I mean by witch is people who work with the

elements of the natural world including human nature to generate more possibilities.

Witching is engaging the essential natural world with magic or supernatural intentions.

Some names for what I'm including in this work, shamanism,

sorcery, seeing, healing, herbalism, midwifery and dula work, root work, conjuring, ritual, spell casting, astrology and divination, sound baths,

ultra-building, song channeling, building a direct relationship with the realm of spirit, ancestors, the holy, the ethereal.

My guest today is someone who has been a marker on the road of this journey for me.

I'm a continuous teacher from day one,

a healer and co-healer.

I feel like we've really been in the dance of learning how to hold and

heal with each other. Someone who I have sent beloved to to be like that's the only

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