Hello and welcome to Battleground 45 with me, Patrick Bishop.

Our subject today is one of the most controversial events of the Allied War, that is, the

bombing of the beautiful old German city of Dresden, 80 years ago by British and American bombers.

Their efforts ignited a firestorm which destroyed much of the city and killed perhaps 25,000 people,

most of them civilians. The event's been portrayed as a war crime by some

Allied historians, a verdict that's been roundly endorsed by German revisionist authors on the

subject. It also has been used as a symbol of the wider immorality of the entire Allied

strategic bombing campaign, which for much of the war targeted entire German cities.

Well, with me to talk about all this, today is Sinclair Makaya.

Sinclair is the author of a highly acclaimed study of the episode.

It's called Dresden, the Fire and the Darkness.

It's profound.

It's important.

It's beautifully written.

And if you're going to read one book on the subject, this is it. Well, at the top, I was referencing the great debate about the morality

of the Dresden raids. It wasn't just one. It happened over many hours. But it's about a lot

more than that. It's about the city itself. There's a great deal about the

business of living in a actually not war-torn city because the war didn't really impact

addressing the way it did other big German cities. And it's a marvelous account of German society,

German thinking, and also the beauties of what was known as a jewel box, also known as Florence

on the Elb. Well, welcome to Battleground Sinker. Thank you for having me. First of all, tell us what

drew you to Dresden. I mean, you've ranged over a lot of subjects in your time, but was there

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