One of the things that it is very difficult for people to understand is the notion of the fall, the idea that humans, that the world, that creation is somehow fallen.

It's very difficult for secular people to understand that, but I do believe in fact that people experience that every day and that it is, in fact fact the idea of being fallen is in fact deeply

knitted into the very structure of their experience everyday experience you know even in their own

criticism of religion this this structure of fallenness is inserted so what I want to do is I want to

look at all of that think about about it, and hopefully give you

some examples that will help you understand why we talk about the notion that creation, that

humans are fallen and what that means.

Music means. This is Jonathan Peuge sure to go to the Symbolicworld.com and become a member. You can become a member completely free and join a community of wonderful discussion, but there are also a way that you

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for your support. It is truly appreciated. Now, one of the issues of

the fall, one of the things that makes it difficult for people to understand what the fall is,

is a criticism that I brought to many of the secularists is that in some ways they struggle to see

their position. They struggle to see where they are. And, you know, and you see that,

for example, in the Enlightenment, you can see that in Voltaire's criticism of Christianity.

In some ways, he criticizes Christianity for not doing what he thinks that should be done,

for not doing the good that he thinks that should be done

and he sees the enlightenment and kind of enlightenment the movement towards enlightenment as

doing the good things in the world that should be done. Now the problem with that type of thinking

is that if you say that you nonetheless have this sense that there's a gap, that there's a gap

between what you think should be and what is in the world. And that gap is very particular.

It's very strange because if the world is fallen, like, I mean, I won't use the word fallen

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