This episode of Control or Delete is sponsored by King Fischer, the company behind

recognisable home improvement brands such as B&Q and ScrewFix, who help make better homes

accessible for everyone. And who, by the way, doesn't love a pop down to B&Q? I definitely do.

King Fischer have recently partnered with Google Cloud, a collaboration that together will

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They are looking for the right people to help them succeed, and that could be you.

They're looking for tech professionals interested in software engineering, data analytics,

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So if you're interested, go to careers.kingfischer.com today to find out more about their tech and digital

roles. Thank you so much to King Fischer for sponsoring this podcast.

Hello and welcome back to Control or Delete. My guest today is the author and novelist Matt Bell,

which I think today about his brilliant latest book called Refuse to Be Done,

a guide to novel writing, rewriting, and revision. He is also the author of multiple novels,

including Apple Seed, which was a New York Times notable book, and he teaches creative writing

at Arizona State University. I absolutely love this book. I read a lot of books on writing and how

to write and storytelling, and this is one of my favorites. It's called Refuse to Be Done,

how to write and rewrite a novel in three drafts, and I've been using tools from it recently as I

work on my own future fiction projects, and I have found it so useful. It's confidence building,

but it's also really, really practical, and there's so much good stuff in there. So I really

recommend, and we chat all about this. We talk about novel writing mainly, and all of the things

that we've both learned along the way. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. I really enjoyed chatting

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