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Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Battleground Ukraine podcast with me Saul David and Patrick Bishop. This week we'll be hearing from a remarkable man.

Pavlo Kazan is an environmental scientist from the Denepro region of eastern Ukraine.

But he's also a reserve officer, a lieutenant colonel who is in the thick of the current conflict

commanding C4 operations, that is, command, control, communications and computer activities.

Well, that's obviously a very important area of the conflict.

And Pavl has received multiple decorations for his service.

He's in a great position to provide some real insights into what's going on as Ukraine gears up

to start clawing back some of the territory.

It's lost to Russia. So this is what he had to

say when Saul and I spoke to him at Tenepro, where he was enjoying a few days' leave from the front line.

What were you doing in civilian life before the war broke out in 2014? My civilian life was

mostly connected with the environment.

Being environmental engineer, I've been organizing many different projects.

I also doing some environmental science on renewable energy, sustainable development, and some other

environmental projects.

And also work in a science.

And I'm an electrical engineer by training with a PhD in statistics.

So I also use my time for science. So I

didn't expect that I will go to the war. No. Okay. So in 2014, what was your military role

...