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Yeah. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Battleground with me, Patrick Bishop and Saul David.

This week we're going to be talking about war crimes, which have been a huge and horrifying feature of the Ukrainian conflict.

From the very first days, it was clear that this was going to be a very dirty war indeed.

And the atrocities go on unabated.

Well, to give you some kind of rough idea, Ukrainian government figures say that as of the beginning of July, about 10,000 civilians

had been killed in the conflict by the Russians and more than 300 of them were children.

Most died in indiscriminate attacks on apartment blocks, shopping centres and other sort of

civilian areas. There have also been many well-documented reports of torture, murder,

and the rape of civilians in Russian-held areas.

Such atrocities naturally generate worldwide indignation and condemnation

and demands that something should be done to bring the perpetrators to justice.

This week we've talked to someone who is dedicated to doing

just that. Janine Di Giovanni is a veteran war reporter who has worked for the Times, the New York

Times, the Guardian and Vanity Fair, but she's also a human rights activist and academic,

currently a senior fellow at Yale University's Jackson Institute for Global

Affairs. She recently founded with Peter Pomeranzov, the Reckoning Project, which is described

as a transitional justice organization that trains researchers in Ukraine to collect testimonies

that can be used in court. This is what she told us.

Janine, welcome to the podcast. You covered many a conflict over the years, including very

...