Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner, and I would like to remind you about two live shows that we are putting on soon.

The first one is on January 3rd in San Francisco.

The second is in Los Angeles on February 13th.

We have got some excellent guests for both shows, so please come hang out with us.

Tickets are at freakonomics.com slash live

shows, one word. Again, January 3rd and February 13th, San Francisco and L.A. Meanwhile, today on the show,

a conversation with someone I know quite well, or at least used to, someone who is smart, shrewd, very good at his work, and someone who taught

me a lot, even if not always on purpose.

Why don't you just say your name and what you do?

My name is Adam Moss. That's easy enough. I am an editor by lifelong profession and recently an author and sometimes a painter.

For a long time, Adam Moss was widely considered the best magazine editor around. He was the founding editor of Seven Days magazine, a clever and slightly transgressive arts and culture weekly.

From there, he went to the New York Times magazine, and after many years there, he took over

New York magazine, which he radically remade for the digital era. He won all the awards an editor

can win. He directly shaped the careers of hundreds of writers and editors. Indirectly,

he did the same for millions of readers. He left New York Magazine in 2019, still on top, but

feeling a bit too old for the game, a bit burned out, and ready for something new.

The something new eventually took the form of a book called

The Work of Art, how something comes from nothing. The book is 43 cases of building something

from first notion to finish product with all the kind of torture in between. Many people who

know Adam Moss were surprised that he wrote a book.

He was one of the few magazine editors who didn't either start out as a writer or want to be a writer

or think of themselves as a writer. He was a full-fledged editor.

...