Welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter podcast on your host, John Harris. I hope that you all are having a wonderful Christmas season. I know I am, although the snow did melt.

We had a bunch of snow yesterday and now I'm looking outside and I see hardly any. So hopefully we'll get some more before Christmas time. But we have a special episode for you today. And I've

had a number of people over probably the last year, uh, reach out to me and tell me, hey, you got to get

this guy, Chris Ladook, on your podcast. And not

Chris Ladoo, the country singer, some of you, probably 10 of you knew who I was talking about

there, but Chris Ladook, the pastor, who has been involved with, I struggle this to figure out which term I want to use,

but we're just going to say Christian nationalism.

I know we've talked about it on the podcast.

I know it's a hot button term for some of you,

but this is a twist, right?

Because Pastor Chris Luduke is actually a dispensationalist,

and he is a graduate of the Master's Seminary in Sun Valley, California,

where John McArthur's the president.

And despite that, he actually is not afraid to say, hey, I'm a Christian nationalist.

I'm for that kind of stuff.

And he has a YouTube series called How Should We Then Think, or a channel called How Should We Then Think, where he talks about this.

And I'll say last before we introduce him that he was also referenced,

although not by name, in the documentary about Grace Community Church and their stand on COVID.

And when they reversed course and decided to open up the church, he was instrumental in

influencing some of the leadership in that. So without further ado, thank you for

coming on the podcast. Pastor Chris Leduc. We appreciate it. Hey, John. Good to talk with you. I've listened to you

for a bunch of years, so it's fun to sit and be able to have an exchange. Likewise. Well,

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