This is a studio both and production.

Hey everybody.

We are doing a holiday series, which we were going to call crime on crime, but that seemed to imply

something wildly different than what this is. So we're calling it, I guess, podcasters on

podcasters, but they're about 20 true crime podcasters getting together in small groups

and just talking about podcasting, true crime,casters getting together in small groups and just talking about podcasting true

crime all things that you hopefully want to hear about so uh i'm here today with alvin williams

from affirmative murder and Javier leva from pretend uh hey guys how's it going what's going going on? How you doing, Javier? What's up? What's up?

Well, why don't we, since we're running this on all of our feeds, and I know, you know, everybody knows

everything about all of us, but just in case someone doesn't, tell everyone about your shows.

Javier, why don't you start? All right, I'll go first. I started in 2017, my podcast pretend. It's about people pretending

to be someone else. So I interview con artists, undercover agents, anybody like living a

double life or using deception. And it's a cool, cool little theme because I could really flex either way.

But I've been, I've been doing it for almost eight years now. And it's awesome.

Fantastic podcast, by the way. Yeah, my partner who hates true crime loves your podcast.

He was like, I could listen. He could do 20 seasons. I was like, yeah, that's the beauty of what

he's doing. That's awesome. I do a podcast called Affirmative Murder.

We also started around 2017 around that time.

I feel like it was the Halloween of that year.

It just was like spookiness in the air listening to other true crime podcasts.

We tend to focus on podcasts that don't get a ton of media coverage for a variety of reasons,

whether it's sexual orientation, color, gender, you know, those kind of things.

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