This is a studio both and production.

Hey, everybody. This is Josh Hallmark from True Crime Bullshit. And I thought as we were getting into the holiday season, it would be a great time for a bunch of true crime podcasters to come together and do what I'm calling. It was originally calling it crime on crime, but that has some very different implications. So I guess just like actors on actors, we're going to get together in small groups and talk about true crime, the experience of creating true crime podcasts, and I guess just our feelings and thoughts on different cases, each other's work and the medium at large.

And for this group, I'm here with the captain from True Crime Garage and Charlie Worrell from

Crime Lines. Hi, guys. Hello. How are you? I'm fantastic. It's a Wednesday morning. It's great.

I love Charlie's voice. And me too. It's like very soothing uh, soothing in an unexpected way. It's like I feel like,

it's my maternal nature coming through on the mic. I think it is. I feel very unjudged when I'm

with you, which is an oxymoron, but I was going to say, usually we're sitting there judging other

people together.

Maybe that's why, maybe I feel safe because the judgment is usually external.

Exactly.

Yeah, no, I, it's funny.

As we are recording this, I'm done with an episode and I'm waiting for music clearance and

my editor to finish, and I thought that would be a good jumping off point.

When I finish an episode, I like to post it immediately because for all the interim time, I sit there second guessing everything I've just created.

And so right now I keep being like, should I go change this thing? Should I rewrite this? So I don't like having episodes in limbo. What is your process, I guess, both like literal, like from concept to research to creating and then also emotional. Like, what's it like for you to, like, create and birth episodes week after week?

I do pretty much my whole show by myself. So I find that the research and the writing process are so

linked. If I get research from someone else, it almost takes me just as much time getting up to

speed on the information, synthesizing it, deciding how I want to say things, how I want to structure,

as if I just did the research myself, because they're just so linked.

I write, I rewrite, I record, I rewrite as I'm recording.

I don't know if you do that, where you're like, oh, that sounded really good when I wrote it,

but it's not really sounding good as I'm saying it.

...