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Death, Sex & Money

After Sobriety, Chasing Goosebumps Instead of Highs

Death, Sex & Money

Slate Podcasts

Business, Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Careers, Relationships, Sexuality

4.67.6K Ratings

🗓️ 11 February 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

When the poet and writer Kaveh Akbar likes something, he really likes it. As a high school student, he got hooked on poetry. In college, it was alcohol. This week, Kaveh talks to Anna Sale about the factors that led to his sobriety, and he explains exactly how he manages a life that’s full of healthy, wonderful obsessions as well as problematic ones.   Kaveh’s critically acclaimed novel Martyr! is now available in paperback. You can read about his temporary fixation on collecting basketball cards in GQ.  Podcast production by Cameron Drews. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

One of my very favorite new books of the year last year was the novel, Murder.

0:06.0

I first heard about it from my friend Carol, who has very good taste in books.

0:11.0

And she talked about how inventive it was and that she couldn't put it down.

0:15.0

And later she said she really appreciated that it was a novel about an addict who was sober that didn't rely on

0:22.5

a relapse to keep the plot going. There is not a relapse in the book, spoiler, but there is

0:29.7

just about everything else. Friendship, sex, manual gardening work to make ends meet, art and

0:37.4

artist, death and artist, death, and generational family trauma,

0:41.4

and dream sequences with Lisa Simpson. Writer Kavei Akbar included it all, and it felt so exciting

0:49.8

to be in his mind. Kave is a poet, martyr, which is just out in paperback, is his first novel, and it was a finalist for the

0:58.8

National Book Award.

1:00.5

He's the director of English and creative writing at the University of Iowa.

1:04.6

But his path there was crooked and definitely seemed unlikely at times.

1:10.4

During his early 20s, Kave was a practicing addict with drugs and alcohol.

1:16.4

He's been sober for years and years now, and we talk about how that happened for him,

1:21.7

including the people who knew just how to invite him into his first recovery meetings,

1:27.4

when Kave showed up curious and reluctant to be a joiner.

1:32.6

Kave and I also talk about his Iranian father and his American mother, and how as a sober person, he is still very aware of how drawn he is to sensational experiences, things that make him feel exhilarated and

1:48.0

changed and transcendent, and how these days that comes from writing and teaching and making

1:54.5

a home with his spouse.

1:57.0

There's no feeling more narcotic in my life today than having written.

2:04.7

If I write a thousand words in the morning or if I write a draft of a poem,

2:07.2

you know, I can get into a fight with my spouse.

...

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