Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs.

Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand.

Marketing tools that get your products out there. Integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time.

From startups to scaleups, online, in, and on the go. Shopify is made for

entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup.

I think people feel afraid of empathy. Empathy is a dangerous thing, actually. Not only is it not of interest,

but people are scared of it. And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

My guest today is Ali Hochschild.

Ali is Professor Emerita at this point at Berkeley University, one of the most distinguished American sociologists.

She has written very well-regarded book called Strangers in the Own Land, Anger and Mourning on the American right, which offered a deep story

for why so many Americans have come to feel deeply disaffected with the mainstream culture

and ended up supporting the Tea Party and later Donald Trump.

And she has now published a new book called Stolen Pride, Loss, Shame, and the Rise of

the Right, which is based on similarly detailed ethnographic work this time in Pike County,

Kentucky. This book was selected by Barack Obama as one of his favorites in 2024.

Ali and I talked about the importance of actually trying to understand fellow citizens who have very, very different political views about why it is that so many academics, so many of our friends and colleagues are willing to try and understand the customs of people in faraway countries, but not those

of their own fellow citizens who have different political views. We discussed the role that pride plays

in our own emotional lives and how a feeling of loss of pride and the shame that can induce

can fuel political movements.

We discussed whether the deep story she offered in Stranger in their own land and that she

updated in the new book. A story of people feeling like they're stuck in line while others

are cutting in,

...