Hello, this is Emma Ganon, and thank you for listening to this podcast. I just wanted to let you know that my new book, The Success Myth, Letting Go of Having It All, is out on May the 18th.

I think it's my best book yet, so I'm excited for it to come out. And the book unpicks the eight success myths from happiness to money, to productivity, to celebrity, to the idea of finally arriving, and how chasing a version of success that doesn't align with your values can really take you off track, and this book is about getting back to yourself.

Breaking free, finding a new way forward, and it's available on May the 18th. If you love this podcast, you'll love the book, and it's available soon from all good bookshops, so you can order yours now. I hope you like it.

Hello, and welcome back to Control on Delete. This is a replay episode. It was recorded with Ava DuVernay in 2018. Around the time her film A Wrinkling Time came out. We chatted about Ava DuVernay's amazing career. She was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary, feature for her film 13.

She changed careers later in life, which was super interesting to discuss, and we spoke in general about how there's no rush when it comes to achieving your creative dreams. I absolutely loved recording this episode in person, and I hope you enjoy re-listing to it.

Ava DuVernay. Hello.

I cannot believe I'm in your presence. You are an icon, and I get to have you on my podcast.

Oh, you're kidding me. I'm happy to be here. How has it been since the film has been out? It's a lot of work.

It just came out on Friday in the United States, and then we hopped to plan a camera London, so it's all new and exciting.

We feel very lucky that you're here. Thank you.

That's all the film this morning. I cried. Have you had that long?

I hear it a lot. I hear it a lot. The interesting thing is where did you cry?

Because I'm fascinated by, at this point I've counted 17 different places when people cry. Usually there's just in summer, there's like three places where people always cry.

In 13th, there's a couple of key places. 17 I've counted places.

I love it.

It was when she, I mean, no spoilers. I was some spoilers. Actually, I'll be really vague because there's no spoilers.

But it's the bit where she is having a real moment of kind of self-love and acceptance.

I just felt like I haven't seen that in a film where someone is just listing out their flaws, and you everyone can relate to that.

Yes, yes. I love that. That's so rating.

I just want to start off really quickly before we dive into the bits of the film that I loved and talked to you a bit about, some of your favourite bits.

But I read that you changed careers in your 30s to become a film director. I find that so incredibly inspiring.

And I just wondered if, at moments like this, you reflect on that and think, wow, I'm so pleased that I've made that move.

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