Hello, this is Emma Ganon and thank you for listening to this podcast. I just wanted to let you know that my new book, The Success Myth, Letting Go of Having It All, is out on May the 18th.

I think it's my best book yet, so I'm excited for it to come out. And the book unpicks the eight success myths from happiness to money, to productivity, to celebrity, to the idea of finally arriving.

And how chasing a version of success that doesn't align with your values can really take you off track and this book is about getting back to yourself.

Breaking free, finding a new way forward and it's available on May the 18th. If you love this podcast, you'll love the book and it's available soon from all good book shops.

So you can order yours now. Hope you like it.

Hello, this is a replay episode with Bella Mackey. It was recorded back in 2019 and she had just brought out her first book called Jogon.

Since this episode is aired, she has brought out a novel called How to Kill Your Family, which became a UK bestseller. It's been topping the charts for months now, maybe even years.

It's a great holiday read, so I recommend that. And I hope you enjoy this trip down memory lane with Bella.

Sunday Times bestseller number two. It's been on the Amazon top 10 for what seems like years.

Three weeks. I want to obviously talk to you about Jogon for most of this interview, but I just wanted to start off by saying that you commissioned me for the Guardian about two years ago. Do you remember?

Yes, I do remember. What was it about? I remember commissioning you. It was about millennials and growing up online, which is sort of what my book was about.

And I remember being so excited to get that email from you.

Oh, thank you, because I remember emailing you thinking I am quite a big name. I don't know if we're able to get her.

And then I love it when people when you're commissioning the best thing in the world is when someone's like, yes, I'm really excited. I really want to do it, because that doesn't always happen.

I really mean you're not emailing from the Guardian. I know what you think, but quite often it's like, no, don't have time, no need more money.

Don't want any editing and you'll just say, oh, it's quite scary, like, just called cold emailing people and asking them to write stuff.

How funny. Maybe I should play a bit more cool then because I've literally like bouncing up and down.

No, that's the best thing in the world. That's what that's when editors want to use you again. So it's like the best way to be.

Love that. So I've obviously been following your work for ages since then, but also before then when you wrote that piece for Vogue about the difference has been being single and alone.

Did you always know that you were going to be writing and in journalism? I mean, I know it's in your family tree and your in your bones, probably, but did you do anything else beforehand?

I went to art school and I really wanted to be an artist. I really didn't, I didn't want to be in journalism. Lots of people in my family are and I thought, you know, it would be nepotistic and I wouldn't be as good as them.

So, you know, you sort of always cursed if you try and do what your parents do. So I went to art school and then it turned out I wasn't very good at art.

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