What we expect of women is that we'll be kind and communal.

And what we expect of leaders is that we'll be assertive and ask for what we want to need.

So our vision of women and our vision of leadership are diametrically opposed.

And so if you're a woman who is assertive, you'll be called aggressive.

You'll be asked to tone it down.

If you're a woman who's warm, nice, communal, you'll be told you don't have what it takes. So what we're basically

telling women is that there is no way to lead as you are.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to No Limits. I'm your host, Rebecca Jarvis. If you are a frequent listener here,

thank you. We really appreciate your loyalty. Thanks for coming back. And if you're new,

welcome. I hope you like what you hear. So each week we work here to demystify success.

It's a complicated word. But the bottom line here is that we talk to the world's most

influential women across all different industries. And the conversations are meant to go beyond

the resume. They are not about the talking points. We have diversions. And we look at decision

making, the tradeoffs, the pivotal moments that shape careers.

So whether you're looking for advice or you just want to hear a good story, you're in the right place.

Okay, everyone, you're in for a treat today because I'm here with a dear friend of mine, Alicia Menendez. She is an anchor at MSNBC. She is an author of the book The Likeability Trap, which is brilliant. She's a mother. She wrote this book. I hope you don't mind my saying. She wrote this book throughout her pregnancy and now has two babies at home.

And she's just an all-around great human being.

A very likable human being, in my opinion.

Thank you, Rebecca. Welcome to No Limits, Alicia.

Thank you so much.

The book was easier to birth than the second child.

Was it?

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