Hello,

That's kind of conversation to your soul.

That's conversation to your soul.

I'm Danny Bessner, here as always with my friend and comrade Derek Davidson.

And we're very excited to welcome back to the podcast, my old friend, Ben Fogel. Ben is the head of publishing at the Alameda Institute and also a contributing editor at Jacobin magazine.

And we've invited him to talk about everything South Africa.

Ben, thank you so much for joining us.

Well, thanks for having me.

I hope you both feel very liberated today after one of these.

Yeah, we are we are recording on the Liberation Day Thursday, April 3rd, or the day after liberation day.

We've been liberated.

Yeah.

We've already been liberated.

It feels good.

It feels good. I just have to say.

We're joining you from the liberated United States.

Thank you, President Trump, for liberating us from having to worry about money, because now we

know we won't have it.

But we've invited you to talk about South Africa, Ben. And I think

let's just start with the basics. What has been going on? How has Trump been thinking about

South Africa? How has he been targeting it? The whole Elon Musk situation. And that's a lot.

But where should we start to understand what's

...