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Follow the link in the show notes to find out more. Welcome to Oh God What Now, the podcast whose name becomes more anguished by the day.

I'm Doreen Linsky. On today's show, has Donald Trump demolished the post-war order? Can NATO survive?

And how do we live in a world where America is no

longer a reliable ally? We're joined by Peter Apps, the author of deterring Armageddon, a biography of

NATO. Plus, much of the media's coverage of Trump is so bad that it's actively misleading.

Why is journalism letting us down? And in the extra bit for supporters, politicians and activists

love to bolster an

argument with their lived experience. But what does it actually mean and how seriously should we take it?

Let's meet today's panel. First, author and columnist John Elyge. Hi, John. Hello, Doran.

You've written a piece of the new statesman about British Conservatives' bizarre affection for

Trump despite voters' dislike of

the president and their love of Ukraine. How are they walking this tightrope?

It is absolutely baffling, isn't it? Because we have extensive polling showing that the British

electorate bloody hate Donald Trump. I mean, like, there was a UGov poll before the election

which found that Harris would have won here by a factor of three to one.

Trump is massively unpopular even among conservative voters.

I think there are a couple of possible explanations, one of which is the one group of people that Trump is not unpopular with, but Ukraine is, are those who are voting for reform, who the entire

British political system have identified as the only people who count these days.

Then there's straightforward tribalism. It's just like, well, Trump is of the right,

...