Can race be transcended?

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 12 January 2023

⏱️ 44 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sean Illing talks with author Thomas Chatterton Williams about race and identity in America. Thomas has analyzed racial identity through the lens of his own upbringing, and the performativity and pressures he experienced. In conversation with Sean, Thomas speaks about how he sees these identities as restrictive connections to the racial oppressions of the past, whether it's possible to achieve liberation without sacrificing solidarity, and on the complex interplay between race and class. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill), author; contributing writer, The Atlantic References: Self-Portrait in Black and White: Family, Fatherhood, and Rethinking Race by Thomas Chatterton Williams (W.W. Norton; 2019) Losing My Cool: Love, Literature, and a Black Man's Escape from the Crowd by Thomas Chatterton Williams (Penguin; 2011) White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo (Beacon; 2018) "Camus' Stance on Algeria Still Stokes Debate in France" by Eleanor Beardsley (NPR; Nov. 7, 2013) The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky (1880) Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates (One World; 2018) South to a Very Old Place by Albert Murray (Vintage; 1991) "The limits of anti-racism" by Adolph Reed (2009) Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:26.9	Slack.com slash DHQ. New Year, new me. Nah, I'm fine just the way I am. Doing the things
0:35.3	I love, like enjoying a latte on the bus with some music or on a walk with a friend. My
0:42.7	only resolution is to enjoy more of what I love, like switching up my usual with oat,
0:49.2	soy, almond or coconut. All delicious non-dairy alternatives available at Starbucks for no extra
0:56.3	charge, while stocks lost subject to availability. Here's a phrase you don't hear much anymore.
1:02.8	Post-Racial. If you were around back in 2008, this was a popular term. America had its first
1:11.5	black president. The vibes were good. Lots of optimism. If there is anyone out there who
1:20.3	still doubts that America has a place where all things are possible, tonight is your answer.
1:29.3	But Obama's victory very quickly gave way to a reactionary movement on the right. And since then,
1:38.1	police cars set on fire. Officers attacked. The fury ignited after 46-year-old George Floyd died.
1:44.0	There is an attempted cultural genocide going on in America right now.
1:47.9	The article race theory essentially argues that racism is baked into all the systems of American society.
1:54.3	The idea of a post-racial America seems naive.
2:02.0	Is there anything we could do individually or as a society that could get us back to that
2:07.9	optimism for a post-racial America? I'm Sean Elling, and this is The Grey Area.
2:26.3	My guest today is Thomas Chatterton Williams. He's a contributing writer at The Atlantic,
2:31.6	in the author of Losing My Cool and Self-Portrait in Black and White, both of which are Memois
	...

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