We're told we live in a free market system, free markets, free people. Freedom. Who could disagree? By implication, therefore, if you want to perhaps

achieve certain progressive ends, maybe bring some things into public ownership, you will create less freedom and that's bad.

Alongside that is the claim that socialist economies or even social democracies are characterized by central

planning, command and control, and at the same time free market economies devolve power, they give it away, they operate through a chaotic freedom that is

incomparable in other systems. But what if this dichotomy wasn't quite right?

What if in free market economies actually there were extraordinary amounts of

central planning?

And what if, under socialism, we would see more power given to everyday people in their everyday lives?

Well, with me today to discuss all of that is the one only Grace Blakely. She's the author of a new book,

Vulture capitalism, corporate crimes, backdoor bailouts, and the death of freedom.

Grace Blakely, welcome again to Downstree.

Thanks for having me. So happy to have you back on. Blaken, again to Downstree.

Thanks for having me.

So happy to have you back on.

It's great to be here.

You were on very recently.

Yeah, not that long ago.

It feels like a while ago.

Something's changed.

I've got glasses. No. Something else. I published a book. You published a book. That too. I like the glasses by the

way. Where are they from? They're just from spec savers. I don't believe you. They are. Are you going into politics?

This is something like norming. No, I'm going into academia. So I want people to think I'm smart.

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