This is trend following radio where great thinking comes alive.

Nobel Prize winners, legendary traders, bestselling authors, and the pros that know what drive us irrational human beings.

I am your host, Michael Covel, not filtered, raw, honest.

That's my passion.

Going back to one of the founding fathers of systems trading, of trend following today.

My guest, Bill Dreis, Bill takes his experience back to the 1970s, maybe even earlier.

Not unlike many rogue traders, so to speak, and Bill might not like that word, but I say rogue

affectionately, but somebody outside the system doing his own thing, going about it his own way,

choosing his life, frankly, a life of freedom.

He did not go the direction of having the most assets under management,

but he has endured for decades with an approach that's rock solid scientifically.

This is one of those moments where you get a chance to dive into the mind of someone

who's essentially a founding father in the industry.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with Systems Trader, Bill Dreis.

I want to jump in with one of your, I don't know if you would call them your heroes, but Benoit Mendelbrot. I want to stay at something very philosophical at the beginning. And he had a point

in talking about the 2008 time period. And he's talking about the efficient market theory proponents.

He said they like to take these 2008 events and sweep them under the rug like they're

an act of God and forget about them.

I'm sure you connect with that.

Why don't you tell the audience where he's really going with that?

Actually, what he's saying is that from a statistical point of view, markets are not random walks. There's a bias in the markets.

There's a persistence in the markets that leads mathematically to what we call fat tails.

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