Hi, this is Jonathan Lehman.

And this is Mark Devere.

Welcome to this episode of Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exist to help church leaders and pastors build healthy churches learn more at nine marks.org.

Mark, a little while ago, you and your elders all, I think, or read all of or parts of,

The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Truman.

Is that right?

Did you work through that with your elders?

We did.

Why?

Why that book?

Because we felt it had more than anything, certainly I had read in the last few years,

put its finger on

some of the changes that are happening in our world around us that either seem unconnected

or surprising and help us to see a connection of thoughts and events, decisions, things that

our culture is accepted that is much longer and older than a lot of

people suspect.

I assume light bulbs came on for your elders.

Yeah, I think so.

Not the sort of book they would necessarily immediately grab.

Right.

It's a history of philosophy in one sense.

...