Hi, this is Jonathan Lieben.

Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exist to help pastors build healthy churches learn more at nine marks.org.

And I have with me three friends today, starting with Michael Lawrence, pastor of Hinson Baptist Church

in Portland, Oregon, and frequent nine moks author. Thanks for to let me back on, John.

Occasional. Occasional podcast guest. That's right. Sarcastic man extraordinaire. There it is.

No, you're not really that sarcastic. That's more us. I've learned it from you.

Yeah, I don't know about that.

We also have Jeremy Meeks, special guest, Jeremy Meeks, who is the host of Preachers Talk.

Indeed, I am.

And what else about you, Jeremy?

So I am also the resident pastor for ministry apprenticeships at Christ Church, Chicago with Dave Helm.

And I am the director of the Chicago course on preaching.

Through the Charles Simeon Trust.

Through the Charles Simeon Trust.

Yeah, that's right.

And finally, Robert Kinney.

Robert Kinney.

I serve at Christchurch in Vienna, Austria, no relation to Jeremy's Christchurch, and

director of ministries of the Charles Simeon Trust.

And what I wanted to talk to you guys about today is a decade or two, well, altogether, probably

three or four, who knows, of training preachers. Robert and Jeremy, you especially, this is your

...