I do

I have labor guests on and it's not intentional.

I don't, you know, nobody's doing it on purpose.

But there is this like circular kind of conversation we can get into where it's like we can't really do anything

because labor isn't big and labor isn't big

because why I don't know we just have to keep trying harder and I understand I'm not

saying that things happen overnight I'm not you know a child I understand how the world works but it also is true that we are faced

with all of these really unique and exigent crises and people did have some expectations for a shorter

time frame when they thought the burning movement was going to be more successful.

And so how do you balance that? Like, how do you say things take time, but also look how quickly the MAGA movement sprung up,

or things take time, but we had this moment during the pandemic where 50 million people lost their health

care and nobody seemed to want to exploit that opportunity to push for more.

What is the Naomi Klein shock doctrine? It's only shock doctrine for the right and it's never shocked doctrine for the left, you know what I mean?

I think about the same things. I just, the answer that I came to was the labor movement is the thing.

The labor movement is the permanent institution that we need to build that can then take advantage

of those moments. The labor movement is the institution. And you know I write in my book in other places

about I don't want unions to be adjuncts

the Democratic Party, but I want them to focus

on organizing workers, you know, so growing the labor movement

is where my alternative path of focus for labor needs to be.

So not being plugged in as an adjunct to the Democratic Party,

but instead focusing on growing themselves.

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