All right. Hi, I'm Jonathan Lehman.

I'm Mark Devere.

And welcome to this episode of Nine Marks Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exists to equip church leaders with a biblical vision and practical resources for building healthy churches.

Learn more at nine marks.org.

That's it. And we're having this conversation

today in front of a live audience. So there might be more of an echo in my voice and yours. And we

have a special guest with us. Very special. Liggin Duncan, an old friend of Nine Marks, chancellor

at Reformed Theological Seminary, an author of

87 books, 95 books.

It's good to be here with you, Jonathan.

Lots of books.

We're grateful for you as well.

I want to talk about things we agree on and disagree on.

We disagree on what baptism is,

right? In part. In part, Mark and I would maintain that it's only believers. You would maintain

it's for believers and their children, Liggin. Yet, I think we agree on the fact that Baptists and

Presbyterians say that baptism is a prerequisite to church membership, true or false.

True.

And what's the connection, Liggin, between baptism and church membership?

I think for both Presbyterians and Baptists, baptism is designed to mark the inclusion or

exclusion of someone within the covenant community.

...