Welcome to Oh God What Now, where a vote for us is a vote to make podcasting great again.

I'm Jacob Jarvis. On today's show, by the time you're listening, America will either be just hours from voting or deep in the midst of

voting. How will each campaign be feeling after the long slog that has been the election race?

And what should we be looking out for as we wait to find out whether Trump or Harris will be the next president?

And the centre-right seems to be struggling in the US and here in the UK. Is there any future for

moderate conservatives? Now, let's meet the panel. Is there any future for moderate conservatives?

Now, let's meet the panel. First up is the author of politics, The Survivors Guide and Guardian

columnist Raphael Bear. Hi, Raf. Hi, Jacob. Raf, so Starma delivered a speech today about

illegal migration today on Monday. Did this feel like it was providing much of a tangible plan, or was

it sort of signaling maybe to some right-wing people to not worry and that he understands the

problem? It's a little bit both, I think. I read the whole speech. I didn't see him deliver it. And

I mean, I come at this from the point of view, someone who still wants to give the storm operation the benefit of the doubt.

And in recognition of the fact that although the last government exploited the question of small boats crossing the channel for pretty shabby sort of populist political means, they boosted the salience of the issue without through the Rwanda scheme having a

practical way of solving it. It doesn't mean it's not an actual problem that does need a solution.

I mean, it is an issue. Now, it's nowhere near as big an issue as a lot of the voters that you

alluded to there think it is, but those are voters that Kirstama kind of needs to vote Labor

as opposed to conservative at the next election.

So that's a long way of saying he is quite serious about solving this from a law and order

perspective.

And he's talking about stuff that was in the manifesto about no gimmicks, but actually just

treating people smuggling gangs as if they were terrorists, which, you know, they are

serious criminals.

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