Haviv Rettig Gur on Palestinian radicalism - was 10/7 just another turn of the dial?

Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

Ark Media

Society, Foreign Policy, Geopolitics, Israel, News Commentary, News, Politics, Elections, Palestine, Dan Senor, Government

4.8 • 2.3K Ratings

🗓️ 31 December 2023

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In recent days, we have been shocked to read the details in the New York Times investigative piece titled: “Hamas weaponized sexual violence on October 7.”For those of us following events on and after October 7 who have bothered to read the reporting coming out of Israel, or talk to Israelis involved (victims, victims’ families, first responders, Israeli journalists), we were not shocked. We will return to this topic in a future episode. But today I wanted to focus on something else: should we actually be shocked? I’ve been struck since October 7 that the barbarism has been covered as though it’s a rapid and steep descent of Hamas (and other segments of Palestinian society that were complicit) into a radically dark place. As though things have suddenly and dramatically turned in an unimaginable direction. Was October 7 an unimaginable turn, or just another turn of the dial of radicalization? This is what I wanted to better understand during my weekly check-in with Haviv Rettig Gur of the Times Israel. Pieces discussed in this episode: NYT - “‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7” — https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare WSJ - Netanyahu: “Our Three Prerequisites for Peace” — https://www.wsj.com/articles/benjamin-netanyahu-our-three-prerequisites-for-peace-gaza-israel-bff895bd PLO Charter: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-original-palestine-national-charter-1964 Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-troops-find-kid-sized-explosive-belts-in-gaza-building-used-to-shelter-civilians/amp/

Transcript

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0:00.0	B, the only de-radicalization in as much as any version of de-radicalization is available to me,
0:04.9	is telling Palestinian society you're misunderstanding me. You don't have to like me,
0:10.4	nobody has to become a Zionist, but if you understand where I come from my historical trajectory,
0:15.5	the extent to which I'm actually a refugee, then the strategy you have pursued until now,
0:20.7	for which you have sacrificed so much doesn't make sense. You can wallow in those sunk costs,
0:28.0	you can sink into them more, or you can turn around. If the Palestinians adopt a nonviolent strategy toward me, not because it's
0:36.0	immoral to pursue violence, but because it literally doesn't work, they can start getting
0:40.9	things from me. They can start influencing me. They can start pressuring me.
0:44.4	Basically in many, many arenas I lose in ways that
0:48.4	terrorism can never deliver for them. But that's at least
0:51.9	some version of de-radicalization I can comprehend. It is Saturday,
1:05.0	Saturday, December 30th, 2023 at 7 PM in New York City. It is 2 a.m. on Sunday, December 31st,
1:16.3	2023 in Israel. By the time many of you will be listening to this,
1:21.0	it will be 2024 and let's just be hopeful not necessarily for a happy new year, but how about a happier new year?
1:31.0	In recent days we have been shocked to read the details in the New York
1:35.9	Times investigative piece the product of two months of exhaustive reporting
1:40.8	titled Hamas weaponized sexual violence. of 7th who have bothered to read the reporting coming out of Israel or talked to Israelis involved,
1:55.6	whether they're victims or victims families or first responders or Israeli journalists,
2:02.0	we were not shocked actually as graphically painful
2:05.8	as it was to read all of this laid out by the New York Times. We will return to the
2:11.3	subject of the Times article about how sexual violence was used as a weapon
2:17.0	on October 7th in a future episode.
	...

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