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Welcome to Holy Smoke, the Spectator's Religion podcast. I'm Damien Thompson. Since the election of an overwhelmingly secular Labour government,

people who describe themselves as humanists have a spring in that step. For example,

there's a prospect that humanist weddings will be legally recognised in England and Wales. They already are in Scotland.

But what exactly is a humanist? definitions vary, and there's a vigorous debate about, to what

extent, the ethical but firmly atheist beliefs of the rather loosely organized modern humanist

movement are descended from Christianity.

In this episode of Holy Smoke, we'll hear from Andrew Copson, CEO of Humanist UK, and President

of Humanist International, and the theologian and spectator contributor Theo Hobson,

author of God- Created Humanism,

the Christian basis of secular values.

I spoke to them earlier,

and as you'll hear, it was quite a lively debate.

So, Andrew, who could start with you?

I've heard a certain amount of speculation that the new Labour government, the members of which

are overwhelmingly not fiercely attached to any particular religion, might be more receptive

to the humanist ideas for which I think you're probably the main spokesman in this country.

For example, there's a push for humanist weddings, which I find an interesting concept

because I would have thought that humanist could perhaps dispense with a theocratic notion of a wedding,

...