Welcome. I'm Kevin Miller. In this episode, how failure is a necessary requirement for mastery of anything. And I am with E.T.H. University, Zurich, Professor Manu Kapoor. So failure is a topic in the self-improvement world, very popular, but I feel it's generally

addressed like a motivational talk. Don't let failure get you down. It's part of life. It's not

failing. It's trying, which is why I was interested when I heard about Manu Kapoor, his work on failure.

He's a professor at the same university that I just told you about where Einstein attended and then taught.

And Manu studies learning and growth from a scientific standpoint.

He actually developed the theory of productive failure, which is the name of his new book.

So he approaches failure completely differently, not as something to cope with if it happens,

but something to make sure it happens. And without it, we have less understanding.

The point isn't really even failing, it's understanding.

And as an example, which we're going to be talking about some, but right off the bat here,

I've got two kids with driving permits right now. These are six and seventh kids I've taught

how to drive. And we have the benefit of living out on Forest Road so they can start driving with a little more freedom. I don't tell them how to drive. And we have the benefit of living out on Forest Road so they can start driving with a little

more freedom. I don't tell them how to do everything. I give them the basics to get started and then

we get going and I just try to stay silent. Let them figure it out. Let them look around and try to

understand. Maybe they'll ask me a question, but instead of

me proactively telling them, let them work it out and figure it out. I even take them into a wet

or a snowy parking lot, have them turn until they slide. So they get to feel what that's like

and not be so phased by it. It's amazing how much better they drive when

they figure this out for themselves. I didn't do this with all my kids. It took a while to learn.

And now talking with Manu on his research and findings, it just, I'm like eager to how do I put

this in place to push to failure so that there's greater understanding,

greater learning?

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