The problem is that I think we've engineered a society, and you've talked about this with automation and so on,

where it's getting easier and easier and easier to have more layers of psychological distance between people who are affecting your life and you.

And the evidence is very, very clear that the more psychological distance between one person and another,

the easier it is to abuse them, to view them as disposable, to start to treat them, you know, like they're insignificant.

And you think about the corporate downsizing consultant, the person who's sort of got the job of just coming into fire you because nobody in the corporate corner office actually wants to deal with that.

And I think we've created a world that is built for psychological distance. Even things like drone strikes, you know, I mean drone strikes create psychological distance more than...

Dude, social media, like people behave on social media in a way they never would in real life, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I always think about that when I get like these hateful comments on my Twitter, I'm like nobody has ever said something like this to me in person.

You get this like 12 times a day. That's why I'm really pleasant on social media, then I'm a total dick in real life.

Like it gets you in person, I'm gonna be like I'm going to tell you, think you have never heard before, to your face.

And then on social media, I'm like, you know, like keep going.

I mean, I'm kidding. But when you talk about the psychological distance, this is actually one of like the grave dangers of our time.

We're pretty fucked, but the erosion of sympathy and empathy.

And then there are these, I'm going to say, like kind of performative displays of sympathy and empathy that I don't think I'm out to the real thing.

It's like, you know, like if you have a choice between helping someone in real life or like proclaiming on social media how much you give a shit, like tell the world how much I care is opposed to you know?

You actually tell someone you care is like go around and like do something about it and no one will ever know you did anything about it.

That'd be a more genuine expression.

This week on Forward, political science professor and author of the new book, Corruptible, who gets power and how it changes us.

Brian class talks about how we can actually build a system that brings in the people we want and gets rid of the corruption that unfortunately is becoming widespread.

Brian class this week on Forward.

Hello and welcome to the Forward podcast, someone who wrote an entire book on a subject that's near and dear to my heart.

That book is corruptible, who gets power and how it changes us.

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