Hey and welcome to The Upgrade, the podcast from the team at LifeHacker, where we help you improve your life one week at a time.

I'm Jordan Calhoun, editor-in-chief of LifeHacker.

And I'm Megan Walbert, LifeHackers Managing Editor. And today, Megan, we're honing our listening

skills and we're learning how to have deeper conversations. Um, what? See, this is exactly

what I'm talking about. You're not paying attention. And while many people are good at the skill

of listening, it's something that we can definitely all improve upon.

There's an art to better listening.

There is. And we have writer and researcher Hima Van Guichea here to help us and we need it.

So often, we're trying so hard to say the next thing and to say the right thing, when really all that person might

need from us is to bear witness to their story and to just have the space to share their

story without, you know, being redirected to, well, let me tell you how I handled this or

or anything like that.

Heman is a user researcher, writer, and illustrator.

She honed her listening skills while doing research for companies like Pinterest, LinkedIn, and Twitter,

and she's the creator of the popular self-help project called The Life Audit.

Hemanah's written work has also appeared in outlets like Inc, The Washington Post, Newsweek, Fast Company, and The Muse.

And now Hima has a new book out called Listen Like You Mean It,

Reclaiming the Lost Art of True Connection.

And she joined us this week to talk about what good listening looks like

and how we can have deeper conversations.

Megan, when you think about the deepest conversations that you've had, the best ones,

if you were to just think back in your memory and recall a time where you thought it was

...