I'm Cal Newport and this is in depth a semi-regular series in which I talked to interesting people about the quest to cultivate a deep life. Now because this series is new, I'm going to start by telling you a little more about it.

My idea is to just release these episodes

as I have interesting people to talk to.

They'll come out on Thursdays, at first it'll be sporadic, and maybe after a while it might become a little bit more regular.

I want to present these episodes with limited interruption, so either no advertisements at all or they'll just be a single

presenting sponsor for the whole episode so that when we get into the conversation

we can really get lost in the conversation. We can really get lost in the conversation. I only tell you more about

today's guest. My idea for the show was that there was two different categories of people

that might be interesting to talk to.

Those who have written about ideas that are relevant to the deep life and those who are

living a deep life themselves, today's guest embodies both of those categories at the same time.

It's my longtime friend and number one New York Times best-selling author, Ryan Holliday. So in this interview, author Ryan Holiday.

So in this interview, I'm starting by talking about Ryan's new book, Right Thing, right now, which

is about the Stoic virtue of justice.

And we get into the idea that justice, the idea of doing the right thing even when it's hard,

having a code by which you live your life is critical to cultivating a deep life, but it's something

that we often neglect when we talk about this topic.

So we get into why that's important why we neglected and how to integrate this

into your own life. The rest of the interview which is really the bulk of the

interview however turns to Ryan and his story. I go all the way back to Ryan, dropping out of college,

taking a job at a talent agency in Hollywood

and another part-time job doing research for the writer Robert Green kind of stumbling

...