I'm Alan Alder, and this is clear and vivid conversations about connecting and communicating.

At the time when Steve Jobs started designing the first Mac, most computers were big as a room,

and you had to be a computer programmer or an engineer to operate one.

And Steve Jobs said to himself, we can make a computer that anybody can use.

It was the idea of the desktop.

And he reasoned that people are comfortable using paste and scissors and paper clips and a trash can.

And if he could recreate that digitally, he could create a computer desktop.

And people said, yeah, I know how to use a desktop.

This is just like a desktop. Of course, it know how to use a desktop. This is just like a desktop.

Of course, it's very different than a desktop,

but the analogy allowed people to see their relationship with the computer in an entirely new way.

And that unlocked the power of computers for the masses and ushered in the information age.

That's John Pollock. He was once a presidential speechwriter for Bill Clinton,

a job he got in part because he's a fan of analogies.

He's also an admirer of puns. In fact, he's an award-winning punster.

He's written books on both analogies and puns and how they help and sometimes hinder in communicating. So I knew we'd have a fun conversation.

Well, as a speechwriter, you must have made great use of analogies. I was so impressed with the

use you made of an analogy

in your interview to become a speechwriter for Bill Clinton.

Tell me that story.

Well, I had worked as a speech writer on Capitol Hill

and had attempted to get into the White House

...