Hey, I'm Jeffrey Masters and welcome back to part two of our LGBTQ

2-parter with Kate Bornstein.

We just posted a brand new interview with Kate, so you can find that right under this one

in the podcast feed.

And as a companion to that conversation, I also wanted to offer up this one that we had

in May of 2018. Kate, for those of you who don't know, is a writer and performer, a trans elder.

She's also the author of The Memoir, A Queer and Pleasant Danger. The subtitle to that book,

and I love this. The subtitle is The Inspiring True Story of a

nice Jewish boy who left the Church of Scientology to become the lovely lady she is today.

And when I look past my own insecurities about posting interviews from so long ago, when I was

just a baby interviewer, I can definitely hear myself figuring things out and learning in real time.

And when I look past that, I can see this fascinating conversation about how much has changed in the last 30, 40 years when it comes to how we think about, experience, and describe gender.

And then to that last point, in our conversation about language and how much has changed,

we do use the T word, so just a heads up there if you'd rather not hear it.

Alright, without further ado, here is Kate Bornstein.

So you've been writing about being non-binary for almost 30 years.

And rereading your work recently, I'd forgotten that you were not always embraced by the trans and larger LGBTQ community.

I'm still not embraced by the larger LGBT and trans community.

I think I'm celebrated by the larger LGBT and trans community. I think I'm celebrated by the larger community,

and that's great, because I'm celebrated as an elder. And I feel very warmly about even people who are upset with me, because you go, aw, isn't that sweet? You know, they're working as hard as they can,

and they do not see yet what I've been trying to say for quite a while. What is that?

That there's more to gender than two. Oh, I'm really surprised to hear you say that because

...