From the Advocate magazine in partnership with Glad, this is LGBTQ and A.

I'm Jeffrey Masters, and I think that by now, we as a community know that there is more to gender than just two.

And yet still, the more we talk about it on a podcast, the more I believe that gender

is simultaneously the most complicated and simple thing in the world. And it's complicated because

we have made it that way, right? And so I'm hesitant to think that I personally know everything

there is to know about gender. Because spoiler, I definitely do not.

But that is why I wanted to call up Kate Bornstein, the great gender theorist, thinker, writer,

to hear what we're missing from these now public conversations about gender. I want to know what

are we getting wrong. And then also I wanted to check in with Kate and hear about how now in her 70s,

her view on gender, both her own gender and just gender in general, has continued to evolve.

And then before we hear it, just to note, I had an earlier conversation with Kate on the podcast

back in 2018, where we chatted more in depth about her life and work.

If you want to hear that, we have actually re-released it, and it's right under this one in your podcast feed.

All right, without further ado, here's Kate.

To begin with, in the last few years, we have really caught up to you in your work when it comes

to gender. You've been talking about and writing about living outside the gender binary for over

30 years at this point, and now we're able to point to people like you and your work as one

example of things we can turn to to read

and learn. But early on 30 years ago, what if any resources did you have? Were there books you were

reading or people you were talking to, anything at all? There was no internet and there was nothing to

look at. You could look up transsexual, but then you would get Christine Jorgensen and you would get

very conservative people.

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