4.8 • 4.7K Ratings
🗓️ 11 February 2025
⏱️ 58 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Scripture can become a weapon in the hands of the ultra-certain. As if every pain or suffering is part of “God’s divine plan.” So how should we understand and apply the Bible to our real lives with our real-life problems?
NT Wright, a New Testament scholar, is a trusted expert to help us understand what truths resound across time and circumstance and which don’t. In this conversation, Kate and Tom dig in especially on Romans 8:28 which is the Pauline version of EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. Is that what Paul intended to say? Is there maybe another, more life-giving way to interpret it instead?
Kate and NT Wright also discuss:
This is a bit of a Bible-nerd out, but I would trust no one else to help us better make sense of where is God when we’re suffering than NT Wright.
This clip originally aired in October 2023.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.
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0:24.1 | Look, I'd consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. |
0:27.6 | I've written books, founded two successful nonprofits, and I'm raising two incredible kids. |
0:33.4 | But here's the thing. |
0:34.8 | I still wake up wondering, is this it? And if the best years are yet to come, |
0:41.4 | when's that going to start? Join me on my so-called midlife, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, |
0:48.7 | where we're building a playbook for navigating midlife, one episode at a time. Each week, I'll chat with extraordinary guests |
0:56.8 | who've transformed their midlife crisis into opportunities for growth and newfound purpose. |
1:03.8 | At some point, we all ask ourselves, is there more to life? I'm here to discover how to thrive in my second act right alongside you. |
1:14.5 | My so-called midlife is out now, wherever you get your podcast. |
1:19.8 | My name is Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. |
1:35.6 | I think I may have specialized myself out of answering jeopardy questions when it comes to the Bible. |
1:43.2 | And that might surprise people who think that I, and thank you if you think this, that I'm just a fond of Christian wisdom. |
1:47.8 | But it's so strange that that's what academia does. |
1:54.5 | You are really trained to stay in your lane, and everything else you can email a very esteemed colleague about who wrote a very detailed dissertation on that exact topic, and |
1:59.5 | here are 12 articles about it. But then I got sick |
2:03.1 | and people started using scripture against me as ways to explain my suffering or justify my |
2:11.7 | pain as part of God's divine plan. And I didn't really have a rubric for how to handle that. I love God. I love the Bible. I love the Psalms. But there are just parts that felt, I don't know, like I didn't want to answer things that weren't in my wheelhouse. I would find myself saying things like, have you met my very good friend Stephen Chapman? |
2:34.8 | He knows. |
... |
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