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Hi, this is Dana Stevens, Slate's movie critic here with a Slate Spo special podcast on Muppets Most Wanted, the new sequel, part two of the new rebooted franchise of The Muppets. And joining me to talk about it is our resident Muppet expert, as I think of you, John Swansberg. Definitely resident Muppet enthusiast anyway. I'm definitely an enthusiast. I don't know if I know enough to be considered an expert, but for these purposes, I'm happy to play that role.

And you are also Slate's editorial director.

Correct.

And also you've got some recent Muppet background because you just reviewed a big biography, the big new biography of Jim Henson, right?

Yeah, I did. It was really fun, and it was an excuse to go back and rewatch, like, probably way more Muppet movies and television shows than was strictly necessary for the purposes of writing that 800-word review.

Yeah, that is a great excuse.

So you're steeped in Muppet lore right now.

I am, yes.

I've watched Labyrinth recently, which probably most people can't say.

Most people of my age probably can't say that.

Most people who can say that are actually working on a felt puppet right now.

They have one on their hand.

Exactly.

So Muffus Most Wanted, you liked this better than I did.

We haven't really talked about it yet.

We saw it together but didn't meet up after the screening.

Right.

So as you know from my review now, I was sadly not a fan.

I really wanted to like this. I mean, I brought so much goodwill in because I just love the Muppets, really liked the last movie. It was sort of a silly reboot, but it was such a sweet-spirited

one that I sort of felt like they got the Muppets. And I deeply feel that the Muppets most wanted

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